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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Here is the whole list of who got these grants in 2010:

http://www.imls.gov/news/2010/092710_list.shtm

Are you opposed to the rest of them? Should the government not give grants to libraries, historical societies, museums, zoos, public gardens, cultural institutions, etc.?

No, let's just fund wars. Fuck libraries, artists and musicians, museums, etc. Just wars.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

No, we ought not grant anything that is not essential. It's going to all go anyway . We as a nation can direct this through the political process or the markets will . Do you think the latter (so amorphous a term), gives a damn about anything ? Bring the meat cleaver out . Reflect back on countries that are unable to sell their bonds and/or have a major currency devaluation. It's not pretty. But in Indonesia , Thailand and Mexico (EU currently through the Fed) the US was the backstop. Who is going to be our backstop? It's not art or war. Both could be cut completely and it would not solve our back cracking deficit and debt. It's the entitlements. And that is going to hurt.
I think our mindset and expectations as Americans are going to have to change while we pay for our bad financial behavior (evil and unconscionable if we leave this debt intact for future generations).

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Well, no, if you cut out the war, you'd save some funds LOL.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Deficits don't matter - Cheney

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Dick_Cheney_Budget_+_Economy.htm

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I remember when O'Neill was kneecapped and left in '02 . The choices we had to face then w/ a 500 M. deficit seem so quaint now.

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Poster: rottenhippie Date: Dec 22, 2010 8:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

here's and idea , lets take my tax money and feed the poor , provide jobs, at a minimum , try to curtail bridge collapse,

Put the money where it does the most good, you want ME to fund your GD archive? lol no thanx

I have enough GD memorabilia to last me a millennium , Santa Cruz has a problem and needs a hook up on some come see me

as I said further and further from the left I fall, The Nancy Pelosi is clueless, maybe not about the Castro District, but about heartland America she is.

This post was modified by rottenhippie on 2010-12-22 16:06:15

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Dec 23, 2010 1:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Wait until 1-3-11. Pelosi won't be the speakerette any more. Gone will be those USAF jets transporting most of the San Francisco Bay Area Democrats back to their home districts on Friday nights. No private service back to DC on Monday mornings. She won't have her flying bars with a $100 K stockpile of free booze either. Nancy will have to fly commercial out of SFO just like the little people and buy the tickets out of her own pocket...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Dec 22, 2010 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Tom Coburn of Oklahoma should perhaps be less worried about a few hundred thousand going to digitize a Dead music archive and more concerned about his indefensible opposition to a bill that would pay for the medical expenses incurred for the firemen, police and rescue workers who responded to the 9/11 attacks:

From today's NY Times:
Headlines in normally conservative news outlets blasted Republicans. Newsmaxx.com wrote that: “Giuliani Raps Fellow Republicans for Holding Up 9/11 Heroes Money‎.” Fox News host Shepard Smith drew attention to Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who has said he will try to block the legislation.

“He is the man who is vowing to slow this down or block it, so the necessary funding for the illnesses of the first responders who made it to Ground Zero to try to save lives on the day that America changed — remember?,” Mr. Smith said during his broadcast Tuesday. “This is the senator who is vowing to block it. So that it doesn’t make it through.”

Wednesday morning, the former Republican congressman and current MSNBC host Joe Scarborough called the Republican opposition to the bill “a terrible mistake” for the party.

“It’s a terrible terrible mistake to be seen as opposing relief for 9/11 heroes,” he said. “This is one of those times when you get so wrapped up in the game that you forget to look and see what’s happening. Here, the Republicans, whether they know it or not, look horrible.”

In other words, when it comes to moral standing on money issues, Coburn and his hypocritical colleagues who used 9/11 to their political advantage for almost a decade and then turned their backs on the men and women who needed them when the time came to put up or shut should shut the fuck up.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

AMEN, grendel... the hypocrisy is astounding.

Been reading this thread for a while now, so I looked up this grant as suggested by RLO. Two pertinent things jumped out: this grant was funded in 2009 - further proving Coburn is grandstanding with this. Second: the govt. grant of $615k is matched by $795k from another source (doesn't specify). !! To me, it sounds like a legit use of funds using new tools for digital archiving. With matching funds from either the university or some private source, can't we feel better about this?

Sure, the money could help the poor, or tuition grants, or some other altruistic need, but it sure seems a better use of the money than a commemorative plaque in some town square (typical "pork spending"), or for more weapons of war.

http://www.imls.gov/news/2009/092409b_list.shtm#CA

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Yes, and if you read the project description, it sounds like other archivists stand to learn a lot from the project, too.

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Poster: rottenhippie Date: Dec 22, 2010 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful


I'm sick of people saying its only a few 100k, that's why we are 14 trillon dollars in debt. Hard choices have to be made. Look, I know Coburn is an azz. Many of the Republicans in the Senate and house could give a dasmn about me. Trust me the feeling is mutual.

I'm not trying to be a @ just got to call ya on this on "only a few 100k" get real friend, not everybody was born w/ silver spoons in there mouth.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Dec 22, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

neither am I, "friend". I work for a living.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Coburn beating up on the expense of a digitized arhcive--which I agree taxpayers should NOT pay for--but turning his back on REAL money to help REAL PEOPLE who actually need it. He tries to champion himself as a "responsible" fiscal conservative, but I didn't hear him whining about the $15 BILLION the Pentagon LOST--actually LOST, that is to say MISPLACED--COULD NOT FIND--in Iraq, or other wasteful expenditures related to defense spending, like nuclear submarines that sit in dock for years doing nothing and cost taxpayers MILLIONS.

These Republicans use relatively meaningless expenditures like the digitized archive to make themselves look responsible but green light every single military expenditure w/out blinking when the Pentagon's bloated $700 Billion-a-year budget FAR OUTWEIGHS any other agency budget....and yeah, that includes health care.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

>These Republicans use relatively meaningless expenditures like the digitized archive to make themselves look responsible but green light every single military expenditure w/out blinking when the Pentagon's bloated $700 Billion-a-year budget FAR OUTWEIGHS any other agency budget....and yeah, that includes health care.

Bingo. This sort of maneuver is cynical. It is not about saving the taxpayer anything. It's peanuts. It just generates easy outrage against people the good senator figures are easy to get people outraged about (you know, dirty hippies).

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Poster: Hal R Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Right you are, this is a way to divert attention from this.
Direct costs of Iraq war from Wikipedia.

As of February 2010, around $704 billion has been spent based on estimates of current expenditure rates[1], which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $2 billion per week to $12 billion a month, an estimate by economist Joseph Stiglitz.[2]



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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Exactly. You cannot tell me about x billion PER WEEK in Iraq and then expect me to get upset about $600,00 to some little university archive. Archiving historical records and artifacts is good work, people.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Ring, it is good work and I support it BUT do you realize that students in the UC system organized protests this past year, including at UCSC, due to drastic tuition hikes? Now, that's admittedly a California statewide problem and doesn't address fed funds, but if I'm a 21 year old that is having to drop school because of 30% plus tuition hikes, I don't think I'd really enjoy seeing federal money going to archive the artwork on mail order envelopes for an extinct band by card carrying AARP members at my library. That said, I'm glad the work is being done, but I do think people have valid concerns about how it is funded. This seems like an ideal private enterprise partnership with the university.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

It *is* a partnership with private enterprise, it appears.
I don't believe this involves a tradeoff with financial aid or has any connection to tuition at California state universities.
Are you opposed then to all federal spending on the arts and culture? You wish none of the projects on that page got funded? As I think Hal pointed out, that is not a very progressive idea, as it simply means the rich have culture and music and art and everyone else does not. And if this did happen, a great many jobs would be lost.

edit - also, there has been a lot of confusion in this thread about exactly who is benefitting. Some people actually seemed to think this was money somehow going to Bob and Phil! The archive will be public and free, if I understand correctly. Those arguing against this seem to be saying libraries should not be public and free. Not really progress for civilization ...

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-12-22 18:26:12

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Please reread my post - I specifically said it's not tied to the tuition. It's the APPEARANCE that gets people upset. I don't think it's hard to understand why people are upset and I fully think that the GOP is cynically using this as an example of wasteful funding to stir up political support. I'm sure Coburn already has his own fundraising letter addressing it sent out.

No, I'm not opposed to all federal funding of arts and culture, but if it gets funded by taxpayers, then taxpayers have a right to argue for what should and should not get funded. Recall Piss Christ? Well that just happened again. http://www.warholfoundation.org/foundation/35_detail.html?page=0
Eric Cantor has already informed the Smithsonian this will be an issue when it comes time for granting budget requests.

I understand the GOP wants to fully pull pulbic funding of the NEA, NPR, and a myriad other institutions. As a part owner of an art gallery and legal counsel to a film that chronicles underground art, I do pay attention to this stuff.
http://www.thealternativecafe.com/index.php
http://www.newbrowfilm.com/

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

If those agencies are completely defunded what effect would that have on the gallery and the arts in general ?

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Right but the point is just that that was manipulated. If he sent out the same letter or sound bite saying OH MY GOD Look at this wasteful spending at the Hartford Public Library or the Indiana University library or the Honolulu zoo, would it have the same effect?

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Poster: advokat Date: Dec 22, 2010 5:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Not at all - I fully understand that the GD makes an easy target, especially when the archive is being housed at UCSC, the school Reagan had planned so there would be no central place to gather after the Berkeley free speech debacles he and his AG Ed Meese cracked down on.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Oh, yeah ...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Since you guys stayed close to the one pet peeve I have, and I am chiming in late, just wanted to say I agree that this is trivia at one level, and of course it's a continuum of where we want to spend our money, BUT what all college kids should be protesting, besides military spending, is the unreal contributions, generally hidden (truly!!!) going to fund sports, primarily football, and the fact that this generally is a huge investment with only intangible results (ie, NO $!!! despite suggestions of local economies gurus that try to argue it does benefit them) that are even less defensible than esoteric notions of how the arts benefit humankind in general, and students in particular.

Seriously--it's a HUGE $ issue, and just like public funding of professional football stadiums and such we discussed sometime back, the data are clearly "in"...students should NOT be forced (they currently are at the majority of schools) to fund the football teams that only provide real results ($) if they are in the top 5% or so of the teams across the country.

Fig'd you'd be up on this, BD, and perhaps one inclined to defend it on the intangibles, but I just don't buy it...regardless, it should be transparent, and it's not. My kids, at uni's in different states, all paid "generic" athletic fees of which substantial portions (literally $100s each semester) were ear marked for the football teams alone.

It makes me puke. And that's not just cause my own team sucks.

Bottom line: as Mando notes, it really is astounding how when you start looking at it, there are absurd examples of every kind, from every part of any continuum you want to examine, of how we spend our money that if you took a vote today on each and everyone, you'd end up thinking "how the F@#K did we ever get to the place in which we spend this much on this item/issue/whatever?!?"

Thus, whenever we single out one tree in the forest, it does look odd, but when you put it back in the forest, and compare it to the other forests, you get so upset that you have to just put it all back down and say "I'll deal with this later cause I gotta go Xmas shopping!"

Or at least I do. Works for me, but I am a cynical old fart that likes to point out when folks have their facts wrong without necessarily giving them an indication of how they should act to extricate themselves from this screwed up situation except by doing the impossible, such as burning down the entire forest in my whacky little metaphor.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

DITTO! I like the Ivy League approach to sports, and I say this as someone who has been to a lot of Final Fours (but not so many college football bowls).

And my football team truly sucks, but we will be ACC CHAMPS IN 2011! (of course, we are the school that got sued and settled with a female placekicker - talk about Title IX). Mando, stop laughing! At least our players take care of their dogs.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

> even less defensible than esoteric notions of how the arts benefit humankind in general

I just find it very funny (funny-strange as well as funny-ha ha) that in a gathering of Deadheads, there would be a sense that "how the arts benefit humankind" is somehow esoteric?! Most people here don't act like that's a strange or esoteric notion to us; most of us act like we could barely get through the day without them, and spend hours every single day explaining what the arts mean to us, how they've defined our lives. I mean, this is going to sound goofy - no then again maybe here it isn't going to sound goofy - but I have been known to have JGB in both ears and realize that I have tears on my face as a result. It is not esoteric to me how the arts benefit humankind!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Right with ya; assume you knew I was phrasing it as some might (and regardless of how you and I agree, there are many--I hope I shouldn't say "most"?--that would view it as "esoteric" relative to so many other day to day issues, "food on the table", blah, blah, blah).

Course, I put it right behind "science education"!

;)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Now that's esoteric for ya :)
*kidding* (sort of ...)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Hmmm, now that I re-read it, it sounds like leaving it to the "educators" in the "education colleges" which is the biggest catastrophe of the last century...don't get me started. Good joke by old bio prof: "roll up your window as you drive past the education college, or they may throw a degree in!"

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

That's pretty funny ...

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Poster: high flow Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Interesting that the Grateful Dead Archive at UCSC is now a part of the "food on the table" conversation. "Kids we'd have *REAL* Frosted Flakes if it weren't for this g*ddamn Grateful Dead Archive Project. I am very sorry. But for now we can only afford Freaky Flakes."

As a tax-payer, I should be consulted about such expenditures.

"Well you voted, didn't you?!?!", you might reply.

Yes, but I am a member of California's Common Sense Party(ha ha...) who's members have recently been added to the list of Endangered Species.

I say keep the archive and make real changes.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

We can vote?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 1:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

More than once if you know how...

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Poster: snori Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Early and often ?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Just google "diebold" and "voting" and see what pops up.

Yes, I'm still bitter about stolen elections and no, I don't think I should "get over it". (And yes, I know JFK stole the election from Nixon).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Anybody with that much sweat on his upperlip deserved to lose.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 22, 2010 2:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

Hey, any guy that learned legal ethics at the same place as Ken Starr and I can't be all bad, right?

I got in "trouble" in law school b/c I flipped off his portrait every time I walked by it and once spit on the ground and a Dean really lit into me and I lit back into him saying it was a disgrace to my degree to show any respect for Tricky Dick and that the only constitutional law he had learned was in order to break it. Of course, since I was appreciably older than most of the other students (and even a prof or two), they all thought I was nuts and fighting a lost war. (which is true) But I did write and get a short reply from Hunter S. before he died (although only via email so no "autograph), so that's something. (FYI, Raoul Duke name by Trudeau is based on Hunter S. speech at Duke) Best thing the uni ever did was refuse to house the Nixon library - although our presence in China is HUGE due to him.

Have we strayed far enough away from the original intent of this thread?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

I think that's a wrap!

Good story.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 22, 2010 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey BD & RLO!

[Needed two for emphasis?]

Right with ya; assume you knew I was phrasing it as some might (and regardless of how you and I agree, there are many--I hope I shouldn't say "most"?--that would view it as "esoteric" relative to so many other day to day issues, "food on the table", blah, blah, blah).

Course, I put it right behind "science education"!

;)

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-12-22 20:21:04

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

This is moot Ring. Soon 20%, (20%!!) of our spending will go to service the debt. That grant to the archive was paid with borrowed money as where the others. That's just insane.
I would like to drink Grand Marnier Cent Cinquantenaire again, but I can't afford it and I'm not taking a bank loan out to buy a few cases.
Life's lottery is unfair. I wish it wasn't so.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

But then shouldn't we say the war is being funded by borrowed money and whoops, we can't afford that, so we'd better bring all the troops home?

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Dec 22, 2010 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

You realize this all has been a plot? Obama and Rhino struck a deal. The Dead play concerts for Obama and bring in the hippie vote and the archive gets the bucks. Simple. End of story.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 22, 2010 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

I wish it were true. Not so much the particular people (necessarily), but the ease with which we could fix it.
I had no idea the hippie vote kicked so much ass. I thought Cook or King's County knew how to play the game. We must be $2 whores (or less) for only $650K . For our services I would expect a modern Getty Museum museum (slightly smaller of course), a 6K concert hall , a small (K-12) school And college of music.
And I get to spend some alone time with a few Rhino execs, with immunity.

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Dec 23, 2010 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

LOL. And don't forget the Avatar Dead playing in that 6K hall.

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Federal government shoud not be funding any of those things...including wars (but that is a different story.)

I stated in the other thread on this topic....
I am all for funding libraries etc., but it should be done locally and not federally.

IMO, the fed should not be funding anything that is not specifically stated in the constitution that it is their responsibilty to fund.

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Poster: Hal R Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

So you are then saying that the rich communities will have decent libraries and arts and the hell with those that aren't. I totally disagree.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 22, 2010 9:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Senator calls university's digital Grateful Dead archive wasteful

Okay. That's a massively far different opinion from mine, but that's okay.